Follow Up on Engagement Ring Law
My ex-fiance corrected me. I was mistaken. I wasn’t ordered by the judge to turn over the ring to him. We reached an out-of-court negotiated settlement whereby he paid me a percentage of the value of the ring as a buy-back settlement. He also told me that he hasn’t proposed to anyone else with the ring. At this point, I only wish him the best in his relationships! I was a tad bitter at the time, though.
- Miss A
According to my ex-fiance who read my post from early today:
The law concerning engagement rings varies greatly from state to state, and it is by no means a well-settled area of the law. Few states have enacted any laws on it at all, and there are only 90 or 100 court decisions on the matter nationwide that I could find over the last century. Ninety-five percent of all cases settle out of court, as did ours.
Some states’ courts hold that the ring is only to be returned to the donor if the donee breaks the engagement. That was the prevailing view from what I could tell going back many, many decades. However, in the last 20-25 years, a clear “modern trend” emerged. Courts now are more likely to view an engagement ring as “conditional gift,” in which the “condition” is marriage. If the “condition” is not met (that is, the couple does not get married), then the ring is to be returned. Very simple, end of story. This makes it easier for the court to decide the matter and removes the judge from getting into the sticky details of who actually ended the engagement, which can be a disputed fact in the first place. The “modern trend” concerning engagement rings emerged at about the same time no fault divorces started to become prevalent. The courts, wherever possible, prefer to stay out of sticky situations, and the “conditional gift” rule makes the analysis for the judge easy and bright-line.
Having said all that, there was no case law in 2004 whatsoever on engagement rings within the District of Columbia. The DC court could have gone in any direction. The judge would not be bound by any precedent, so she could have done anything she felt was appropriate: awarding it to you, me, or ordering a sale and a 50-50 split. I was going to make the “modern trend” case to the judge, which I felt was pretty persuasive. Even though I thought it was persuasive, it was a gamble to go to court. I estimated a 30-40% chance I’d lose that case to you, which is why I was willing to pay you an out-of-court settlement.
October 9th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
And some things never change! Men always want to have the last word!!!! LOL…..
The situation was in the past and who cares what happened; as long as the story or column is interesting people will read it.
Live every moment like its the last and always live in the Now and look forward with bliss! : D
October 10th, 2008 at 10:00 am
I’m not sure i read ur initial post but i want to give my thoughts as a guy. We aren’t all doucebags. Look I was married, got divorced, and we handled everything out of court. I got the ring, she kept her breasts intact. I got my plasma TV, she got the car. Do u know what i did with the ring? Well wisely when i purchased it, as i believe is common in alot of places, i purchased from somewhere where i could always get store credit for the value of the diamond at purchase towards a future purchase. Because my ex’s sisters were so close with me, i decided to give them as graduation gifts, a diamond pendant necklace (u know so the diamond looks like it’s floating on ur neck). So i took the engagement ring diamond (took the loss on the setting), traded it in, got two diamond pendant necklaces made, and wala - teh diamond isn’t carried forward to some other woman, and i still ended up making 3 women happy out of the deal. The ex (who thought it was the best use possible for the diamond - i mean what future wife wants a diamond who was partially funded by a diamond u bought for some other woman?, i made the 2 sisters happy, and salvaged at least 2 relationships going forward). All i’m saying is, it’s not so bad for the girl to give up the diamond. What are u going to do when ur future boyfriend asks you what that ring represents? So go ahead, give it back, u don’t want the memories anyway, no matter how expensive the ring. Oh so u want to sell the diamond? Get at least 50% for it? And now we are starting to see clearly why you probably didn’t get married in teh first place. No offense ladies, but their has to be some sarcasm about this.
October 10th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
This is where I get nasty comments …
My ex-wife got an engagement ring - a Claddagh ring of somewhat-traditional Irish design. I got myself one at the same time. You wear it on your right hand as an engagement ring, and in the wedding ceremony you move each other’s rings over.
It means a lot more than a piece of carbon to me. Yes, my ex-wife kept hers. What our marriage was all about was 12 years of our lives and two children. The ring? C’mon! Romance is not made of such things, is it? I gave it to her, it is hers.
The idea of a big ol’ gem worth fighting over as the definition of your relationship makes marriage sound like an investment. What, do you want the ceremony to include the father handing off the bride after receiving his 4 oxen in trade like the old daze? C’mon!
I can’t imagine why a woman would want that hanging over her, one way or the other. Yes, that attitude means that some women are totally off-limits to me. I don’t really care.
October 12th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Just for the record, about 95% of women are not going to sell the ring. However bad the brake up was, women always hold on to the positive memories, the times they knew someone cared so much for them that they were given this amazing symbol of love. And over time they will look at it, say to them selves an amazing man once loved me and I will cherish thoughts memories. Even if she gets another man or get remarried to someone else we women always remember every man we fell for. That Ring is like the box of memories for the bad times and the good times but most of all the lessons we learned. Also, most women will not continue wearing it; it’s usually in some safe place. We do like to look at gems it beauty, but also for the memories just as we look at photos
If the women are so scored she may sell it, but most likely trade it in and upgrade the diamond. Most stores now do that and are more then willing to do anything to get some sort of a sale.
And your right about the value, you will only get 50% of the value and I think most people know retail is supper inflated. If for thoughts who decide to sell your jewelry always get what is called a “liquidation value” from an independent appraiser someone who is not affiliated to a store and remember appraisers should never offer you to buy anything that is unethical practice. But with liquidation value you will know what you can get for your jewelry and not get ripped off. A conmen practice done by banks when they sell estates and yes attorneys for estate liquidation or splitting assents in messy divorces.
Remember Boys you love your TV’s, surround sound and gadgets, we women usually don’t fight you for what you love and enjoy. The ring was a gift and well I think the women should be allowed to keep it what ever happens. I agree f the women decided to brake up she should return it. Otherwise get a pre-nuptial or written document stating if we brake up I get the ring back. I know this quite customary in affluent families were the ring happens to be a family air loom. The less advantage should do the same it was your grammas ring then you protect it your self. I am all for romance and love but I am realist and in today society we women and men should protect are assets. The world is constantly changing and anything at any time can happen. Yes we can fall out of Love just as easily as we fell in to it! I am strong believer in prenuptials but that me.
October 27th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Thank you..